<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Rhetoric, Action, and Cooperation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:28:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob C</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6745</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 11:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From the article I posted above...

Fr. Petri, however, took issue with this definition, saying that “immediate material cooperation” is normally defined as a situation in which “my action is necessary for the commission of the evil, and without my action the evil would not be committed]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the article I posted above&#8230;</p>
<p>Fr. Petri, however, took issue with this definition, saying that “immediate material cooperation” is normally defined as a situation in which “my action is necessary for the commission of the evil, and without my action the evil would not be committed</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6741</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 00:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Douglas, 

Thanks for the hard examples.  

First, as far as I can tell, none of those constitute instances of formal cooperation.  Again, from what I can tell, formal cooperation refers to an overlap of intention on the part of the cooperator.  That is completely different from foresight into what his or her cooperation will result in.  All of these instances, presuming that there is no intention on the part of the employers that any of their employees use the abortifacients or euthanasia kits, constitute instances of mediate or immediate material cooperation. 

Second, that being the case, the employers must take into consideration the question of material cooperation and to what degree they feel it compromises their mission and causes dangerous &quot;seepage&quot; for themselves and their company and employees.  There is also the question of scandal, since from a purely outside perspective, immediate material cooperation looks almost identical to formal cooperation.   However, even in the case of immediate material cooperation, discernment is required and allowable since both personal duress and the common good must be taken into account.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Douglas, </p>
<p>Thanks for the hard examples.  </p>
<p>First, as far as I can tell, none of those constitute instances of formal cooperation.  Again, from what I can tell, formal cooperation refers to an overlap of intention on the part of the cooperator.  That is completely different from foresight into what his or her cooperation will result in.  All of these instances, presuming that there is no intention on the part of the employers that any of their employees use the abortifacients or euthanasia kits, constitute instances of mediate or immediate material cooperation. </p>
<p>Second, that being the case, the employers must take into consideration the question of material cooperation and to what degree they feel it compromises their mission and causes dangerous &#8220;seepage&#8221; for themselves and their company and employees.  There is also the question of scandal, since from a purely outside perspective, immediate material cooperation looks almost identical to formal cooperation.   However, even in the case of immediate material cooperation, discernment is required and allowable since both personal duress and the common good must be taken into account.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6721</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Douglas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 17:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6721</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[At what point then does one have an &quot;overlap of intention&quot; if it doesn&#039;t occur when one pays to provide someone else with free abortions or euthanasia kits?

I&#039;ll lay out a few scenarios to try and see where you come down on this.  Feel free to add more if you think it would help draw the distinction.

1) The government tells employers they must pay for  abortifacients/euthenasia kits, though the physical distribution and use will be handled by others.
2) The government tells employers they must pay for and distribute abortifacients/euthanasia kits to their employees for self administration
3) The government tells employers that they must pay for both abortifacients/euthenasia kits and for a doctor to supervise their proper use.
4) The government tells employers that in addition to #3, they must provide office space for the doctor at their place of work.
5) The government tells employers that in addition to #4, they must provide someone to physically assist the doctor in carrying out the abortion/euthanasia if he or she can&#039;t handle it alone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At what point then does one have an &#8220;overlap of intention&#8221; if it doesn&#8217;t occur when one pays to provide someone else with free abortions or euthanasia kits?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll lay out a few scenarios to try and see where you come down on this.  Feel free to add more if you think it would help draw the distinction.</p>
<p>1) The government tells employers they must pay for  abortifacients/euthenasia kits, though the physical distribution and use will be handled by others.<br />
2) The government tells employers they must pay for and distribute abortifacients/euthanasia kits to their employees for self administration<br />
3) The government tells employers that they must pay for both abortifacients/euthenasia kits and for a doctor to supervise their proper use.<br />
4) The government tells employers that in addition to #3, they must provide office space for the doctor at their place of work.<br />
5) The government tells employers that in addition to #4, they must provide someone to physically assist the doctor in carrying out the abortion/euthanasia if he or she can&#8217;t handle it alone.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6719</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 13:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6719</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I understand formal cooperation to refer only to overlap of intention: I must intend the evil in which I am cooperating.  If I am not, then my cooperation is material in some form.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand formal cooperation to refer only to overlap of intention: I must intend the evil in which I am cooperating.  If I am not, then my cooperation is material in some form.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6715</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Douglas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 06:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nathan, 

Are you suggesting that it is only material cooperation if I pay a company to buy euthanasia kits and stock them in a warehouse down the street from where I work so any of my employees having a tough time in life can get their free death kit?  It seems to me that if you pay for something that is intrinsically evil knowing people will likely avail themselves of that evil, then you are formally cooperating in that intrinsic evil.  Just because an employer uses a middle man to distribute the euthanasia kits to their employees doesn&#039;t remove them from the realm of formal cooperation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan, </p>
<p>Are you suggesting that it is only material cooperation if I pay a company to buy euthanasia kits and stock them in a warehouse down the street from where I work so any of my employees having a tough time in life can get their free death kit?  It seems to me that if you pay for something that is intrinsically evil knowing people will likely avail themselves of that evil, then you are formally cooperating in that intrinsic evil.  Just because an employer uses a middle man to distribute the euthanasia kits to their employees doesn&#8217;t remove them from the realm of formal cooperation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6621</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 16:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I link them because they are two religions experiencing persecution in the United States right now.  Muslims are experiencing worse persecution I think, and so to speak out for religious liberty these days means to speak out on behalf of our muslim brothers and sisters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I link them because they are two religions experiencing persecution in the United States right now.  Muslims are experiencing worse persecution I think, and so to speak out for religious liberty these days means to speak out on behalf of our muslim brothers and sisters.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 2ndfltvet</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6617</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[2ndfltvet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 03:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brother Nathan: I just can&#039;t figure how you can link catholic and
moslem in your religous liberty discourse. It may remotely be
possible in just the United States and possibly other western
nations - but that is where it ends. In the predominately moslem
nations, there is absolutely no &quot;religous liberty&quot; as you or I know
it. If we are discussing this as a human rights issue, why not 
include Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, etc., etc? Are you infering that
it is mostly catholics and moslems who are sensitive to the idea
of abortion? I do not accept that premise. - James Murphy]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother Nathan: I just can&#8217;t figure how you can link catholic and<br />
moslem in your religous liberty discourse. It may remotely be<br />
possible in just the United States and possibly other western<br />
nations &#8211; but that is where it ends. In the predominately moslem<br />
nations, there is absolutely no &#8220;religous liberty&#8221; as you or I know<br />
it. If we are discussing this as a human rights issue, why not<br />
include Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, etc., etc? Are you infering that<br />
it is mostly catholics and moslems who are sensitive to the idea<br />
of abortion? I do not accept that premise. &#8211; James Murphy</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob C</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6610</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 15:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fr. Nathan - I think there are two questions here - whether the mandate could be followed if imposed (you seem to argue it could), and on the other hand, whether its imposition should be accepted in the first place (many argue No). 

The arguments to your position are listed here:  http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/moral-theologians-reject-catholic-writers-defense-of-hhs-mandate/ 

Curious as to your thoughts...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fr. Nathan &#8211; I think there are two questions here &#8211; whether the mandate could be followed if imposed (you seem to argue it could), and on the other hand, whether its imposition should be accepted in the first place (many argue No). </p>
<p>The arguments to your position are listed here:  <a href="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/moral-theologians-reject-catholic-writers-defense-of-hhs-mandate/" rel="nofollow">http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/moral-theologians-reject-catholic-writers-defense-of-hhs-mandate/</a> </p>
<p>Curious as to your thoughts&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6603</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 16:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just to follow up:

First, I think that if this were a case of immediate material cooperation, Catholic hospitals could still provide this coverage on the basis of duress and for the sake of the common good.  That is not to say that they should not fight the mandate.  The danger of providing the coverage is that there is a possibility of contamination through seepage and self-deception.  But it would still be allowable.

Second, I see this as mediate material cooperation rather than immediate.  It is more like the situation of say me being a landlord and offering unfiltered internet access as part of the rent.  Currently Catholic hospitals offer filtered access.  With unfiltered access, I could not guarantee that no one would look at pornography or take part in illegal activities on the internet that I&#039;m paying for, but my cooperation in those activities would only be mediate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to follow up:</p>
<p>First, I think that if this were a case of immediate material cooperation, Catholic hospitals could still provide this coverage on the basis of duress and for the sake of the common good.  That is not to say that they should not fight the mandate.  The danger of providing the coverage is that there is a possibility of contamination through seepage and self-deception.  But it would still be allowable.</p>
<p>Second, I see this as mediate material cooperation rather than immediate.  It is more like the situation of say me being a landlord and offering unfiltered internet access as part of the rent.  Currently Catholic hospitals offer filtered access.  With unfiltered access, I could not guarantee that no one would look at pornography or take part in illegal activities on the internet that I&#8217;m paying for, but my cooperation in those activities would only be mediate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ</title>
		<link>http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/rhetoric-action-and-cooperation/#comment-6602</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan O&#039;Halloran, SJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 15:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whosoeverdesires.wordpress.com/?p=4779#comment-6602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I disagree.  There is immediate external causality and proximity in handing a man a gun.  That is not true with contraception since other people still go and procure it for themselves.  The difference between immediate and mediate is not easy to distinguish.  I&#039;m not sure I would label your second example as cooperation at all except in the most ambiguous sense.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree.  There is immediate external causality and proximity in handing a man a gun.  That is not true with contraception since other people still go and procure it for themselves.  The difference between immediate and mediate is not easy to distinguish.  I&#8217;m not sure I would label your second example as cooperation at all except in the most ambiguous sense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
